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admin_j

(Mitglied)

Hi again doder,

can you make a scan of 800 DPI from the 4 RM Polarfahrt? So I can tell you more about the cancellation.

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18.06.11, 00:12:43

doder

(Mitglied)

Ok, Sure I'll make it but it take me some time because I don't have a scanner personally.

PS. To alexx.

I can't agree with your opinion. You admitting me that this stamp was genuine and right now it isn't because of postmark? I think we must split two things. First it's a postmark and second it's a stamp (as a texture itself). This two things was created separately. Maybe postmark is false, it could be but the stamp remain genuine still. It's the same situation if someone will paint a moustache on the famous Mona Lisa in Musée du Louvre or if a Pietà sculpture of Michelangelo due to earthquake will break apart (by the way it was damaged in 1972 by a maniac with a hammer in the hand). Mona Lisa still will be Mona Lisa (as a painting) even with faked moustache and Pietà still will be original Pietà but repaired (maybe with visible cracks on it). Especially when we are talking about artifact or subject which isn't making nowadays. So, I think that the value of this stamp should be as the stamp without postmark and a gum. That's why, if you send the stamp to expertization and the postmark appear to be faked any stamp expert will put crossed signature in the corner of the stamp instead of destroy it. It means that stamp still remain valuable but the postmark on it is faked.

18.06.11, 14:37:05

Alexander Zill

(BPP-Mitglied)

Hi doder,

it was really not my idea to offend you and hopefully my english is good enough for transporting my information to you without new upcoming anger....

For me is a big difference between Michelangelos famous works an a stamp. In spite of completely different value your stamp shouldn´t be unique and even a perfect kind of the zeppelin-stamp should find much more easily its way to your living room than a tiny little peace of a rest of an picture from Michelangelo. So my personal and really subjective opinion means, that I have really no desire to get a zeppelin-stamp with what kind of a fake ever. It is really up to you to come to another decision and I apologize, that even great collectors may have stamps in their collection I never will put into mine. This aspect might show the totally different ideas to build up a collection.

I´m sure, we are not far away from each other.
https://www.stampsx.com/forum/attachment.php?id=15625&

My stamp isn´t really perfect and it is up to you which stamp will find its place in your collection.

Best regards

alexx
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 IMG_4064.JPG (81.37 KByte | 17 mal heruntergeladen | 1.35 MByte Traffic)

18.06.11, 15:06:00

doder

(Mitglied)

You don't need to apologize because you don't offend me. I'm treating this conversation as a normal exchange of opinions but I was a bit shocked of your proposition to destroy the good stamp (which is not a forgery itself). The postmark is not obvious but it's nothing to do with the stamp anyway. Of course if the stamp and the postmark will be definitely a forgery, the only way to get rid of is to burn it.
About Michelangelo, yes this example was controversial and overdrawn but I wish to show you that destroying anything because of defect (artifact or subject) which was produced in the past and is not producing thisdays is a "vandalism" (especially when we are talkin' about collectibles, art or anything what is not a "tool for everyday use").
About stamp you put on forum it's a completely different stamp from mine freuen
It's Chicago Weltausstellung 1933 and we are talking about Polarfahrt 1931. But it's ok, I know what you mean.

e.g. Here are all Zepellins (Genuine not forgery) from my collection Incl. Postfrisch 4 RM Weltasstellung '33.
(Five of it have H.-D. Schlegel Kurzbefund).


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 Graf Zeppelin.jpg (459.11 KByte | 16 mal heruntergeladen | 7.17 MByte Traffic)

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 Zeppelin Südamerikafahrt.jpg (445.03 KByte | 13 mal heruntergeladen | 5.65 MByte Traffic)

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 Zeppelin Polarfahrt.jpg (466.12 KByte | 13 mal heruntergeladen | 5.92 MByte Traffic)

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Zeppelin Chicagofahrt Weltausstellung.jpg (479.05 KByte | 19 mal heruntergeladen | 8.89 MByte Traffic)

18.06.11, 18:26:36

doder

(Mitglied)

Finally, I've bought multifunction printer, so I can get high resolution scans. Here it is a 1200 DPI scan (compressed to 500kb) of my Polarfahrt 4 RM as you requested Mr. Kraft. Once again sorry for this delay but I didn't have image scanner before. Now you can write me your opinion about this postmark, please.
Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Polarfahrt 4 RM.jpg (487.87 KByte | 29 mal heruntergeladen | 13.82 MByte Traffic)

17.11.11, 18:02:06

admin_j

(Mitglied)

Hallo doder,

I am not shure. The horizontal line is very fine and it is an early usage of this type of postmark. On the other hand, the letters are looking good. Therefore I tend to think that the cancellation is genuine.

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17.11.11, 19:19:45

doder

(Mitglied)

geändert von: doder - 17.11.11, 23:55:45

Zitat von admin_j:
Hallo doder,

I am not shure. The horizontal line is very fine and it is an early usage of this type of postmark. On the other hand, the letters are looking good. Therefore I tend to think that the cancellation is genuine.



Thank you very much. I prepared better scan with cancellation only, maybe this will be more helpful for you (it's 4800 DPI scan compressed to 500 kb) and a link to full resolution image (5304x3904; 5Mb): http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/332618/Polarfahrt-4-RM-jpg.html.

I've scanned also a second cancelled stamp MiNr. 456 (4800 DPI compressed to 500 kb) about I've asked also before.
If something other will be more helpful for you, what I can do, don't hesitate to write me.



Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Polarfahrt 4 RM Cancellation.jpg (499.62 KByte | 11 mal heruntergeladen | 5.37 MByte Traffic)

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 Polarfahrt 1 RM.jpg (487.89 KByte | 10 mal heruntergeladen | 4.76 MByte Traffic)

17.11.11, 23:50:15

doder

(Mitglied)

geändert von: doder - 26.11.11, 20:33:52

I made a small comparison. In my collection I've got Zeppelin stamp with exactly same type of postmark from IDAR - OBERSTEIN. I overlapped those two stamps and every line fits perfectly.

PS. I found also the same kind of postmark on this auction: Zeppelin Polarfahrt 4 RM

It seems to be 100% genuine lachen
Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 IDAR - OBERSTEIN.jpg (481.02 KByte | 5 mal heruntergeladen | 2.35 MByte Traffic)

Dateianhang (verkleinert):

 4 RM Comaprison.jpg (443.79 KByte | 14 mal heruntergeladen | 6.07 MByte Traffic)

26.11.11, 18:09:24

admin_j

(Mitglied)

Hello doder,

the most postmark forgeries have the right size. Habe a look to the horizontal line. On the Polar-Fahrt the line is to wispy. I guess the cancellation of the Polar-Fahrt is not to expertize as genuine.

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26.11.11, 23:19:13
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